These earlier observations were made when the comet was lower in the sky and its light more readily absorbed by the thicker, hazier air near the horizon. Gonzalez is an expert observer working under very dark skies. He routinely sees faint comets that escape the attempts of other less experienced amateur astronomers, myself included. Still, why the disparity between his and Leonid Elenin's 18th magnitude estimate of the comet's brightness? Two factors may be at play.
Elenin's was based not only on a photograph, but also when the comet was much lower in the sky. I don't know the field of view of his photo, but if it's small - and especially with the comet much lower - it might not show the distended, faint coma but rather a fragment inside.
That fragment, if that's what it is, is obviously very faint. Elenin is still not sure if what he photographed is the comet or just noise. Meanwhile, Gonzalez observed the comet much higher up with a wider field of view. Although unable to see any fragments — they're too faint to spot visually — his wider field of view, darker sky due to higher elevation and very perceptive eye allowed him to see the entire coma and even a short tail.
Based on the details of his observation, the coma would have looked like the faintest puff of light just a little brighter than the sky background. Although Having compared my observations with Gonzalez's for a number of years now, I'm guessing it would have been very faint from my dark sky site even in my 15?
No one to my knowledge photographed the comet this morning with a wide-field telescope. And no one knew about it because it wasn't our right to know about it just like this is. You state the the JPL website sometimes is not updated regularily. So what you are telling me is that with all the government taxpeayer funding that NASA receives, they cannot update a website as fast as some of these I guess you would say It's still there.
I don't know what you were looking at, but on the 2nd and 3rd, yup, still there indeed. What are you trying to prove? First Fire the person that said it broke up.. The gas is massive around the object Greetings to all out there I boldly suggest that visual astronomy would be potentially dull and boring if comets behaved precisely on cue, to some sort of pre-ordained script Humankind belongs to the Universe We astronomers should consider ourselves to be very privileged observers of the Universe, not the potentially arrogant masters of it.
Observe, measure, write it down, report, publish To read at this late date on a supposedly science-based website dealing with astronomy, that comets are made mostly of dirty ice cores along with other materials.. If that is still the model you base your other views and postings regarding comets and solar science then all I can say is no wonder every other headline about space these days starts out by saying " Scientists were suprised" Experts left scractching their heads" What an absolute waste of my sign up time.
So does that mean we all of a sudden believe absolutely everything TPTB are telling us, about everything? I think it's interesting to study the ancients and their astornomical knowledge and find nothing to laugh at within it.
It amazes me that people are so sure nothing will ever happen to us in our lifetime. Where did this superiority complex come from? Well it happened in someone elses lifetime, so why not ours? You don't have to be an idiot to get what's going on. Thanks for the update I feel so much more at ease. Especially since all the Hurricanes and Typoons and X-flare's from the sun have been increasing.
I guess it is just coincidence and global warming. I also have not noticed any increase in earthquakes at the 37degreesN since "little elly" came into our solar sytem. Thanks for update! I find so amazing how a comet that is so small, and generates no tail, can have such an overwhelming response that our entire news agency refuses to mention it all.
Has anyone noticed that commet Elenin seems to be the focal for alot of doomsdayers? It is gone and still they hang on. I think the time we are in and the access to global comunucation has driven the end of world idea to new limits.
FEMA, Elenin, There is a vaccum that many people are falling into. Some need to have the world end now? In 50 years from now I am sure it will be analized, like flower power etc. Being in the middle of it right now you can't really tell why. But I am sure in 50 years from now people will look back at all this crazyness and laugh.
Like global warming I am sure it will coll off again at some time in the future. There is new forms of energy being played with all the time.
EG: The US military filed a patent on a magnetic fridge. Real low power. In 10 years it will be sold in your favorite store See you in This is no meteor.
It has a pyramidal shaped when seeing the solar radiation bounce off. All of the doubter will be silenced soon. The Lumunati are here. You've had months of warning about Elenin, you've seen it coming, please spare us any more of the gibberish and descend into your hermetically sealed hidey-holes.
Hopefully you're off the grid, too, you don't want any mutated survivors coming after your dehydrated water and vacuum-sealed survival meals.
Are we exactly sure when and where Elenin will first appear to the naked eye or easily visible with binoculars. I mean like I live on the west coast which direction should I look and when should I expect to have a good view.
I have Meade telescope that I want to set up out side when the visibility is easily attainable. So I can a least see this monster coming and watch the fire works. Yours truly, a Rinky dinky armature astronomer.
Who sense's trouble on the horizon. Just because the comet has self-destructed broken up into smaller pieces doesnt mean the matter or mass making up the comet has suddenly disappeared.
It will however cause it to lose mass more quickly than before due to solar weathering, since the multiple smaller pieces means more available surface area to be ablated. I am reading these post and it just cracks me up. I don't consider myself highly inteligent but I question others who bring up theirs in a conversation. Like the two people who bet the world isnt going to end. Until Ian addresses these central basic issues, his abrupt dismissals of peoples legitimate questions and concerns are meaningless.
The carbon star CW Leonis is located at 09 47 On Jun Elenin was at coordinates 09 47 IRAS was launched on January 25, , its mission lasted ten months. IRAS could not have imaged Elenin in After has come and gone without any major incident on the Earth, and the insignificant Comet Elenin has disappeared back into Oort Cloud, you and others of your ilk are gonna look like a right charlie when everyone reads your multiple comment here in the year !
If so, I have seen that happen to good folks, and they have talked about it when they returned to the sane world. I wish you great success in life by taking the easier road.
Memes like this trap all too many in a cycle of unsanity. Which is it please, because surely you are not stating that Comet Elenin is capable of the claimed displays AND that it is in orbit with some unknown but massive object.
Oh, and while on that subject, please provide cites for your claims of any S-E-E-some unknown but massive object alignment damages, show the math as well please, indicate the mass of that unknown but massive object in standard units for mass and EM spectrum. I await your answer. Assume as a given all other masses for these other known objects. The simple math for this was established several centuries ago, most educated 12th graders could do it if they had paid attention in class.
Good luck finding one. Please tell us all what would cause any of those conditions to be actual 2. Draw straight lines to current theory as links in your hypothetical, after all, if you wish to engage in thought experiments it is on you to set the stage and posit the initial conditions 3. Follow through and indicate some expected result 4. Present to others for checking. It is for us to check your math and then carry your thought experiment away if it is sound and play with that one, as well as all the rest, in the sandbox of physics.
Take care to treat all knowledge as it deserves, inspect all packages before unsealing, and wear clean under garments like mom said, you know not when disaster will strike. You claim that there is some dispute currently in progress twixt the EU and SM folks when in fact there is no dispute currently and for some long time in the past.
EU was checked against observations and dismissed, not out of hand but rightly, when it was not able to describe the observations, could not make predictions which could be tested, and in general fell down with the first of MANY enquirers. So, Jason, you get federal funding and do not wish to risk losing it, additionally, examining any bus from beneath is not to your liking.
I get all that implies. One which is NOT linked to you via twitter, facebook, or any other identifiable link back to you, your family, your friends, and workplace and THEN show us your math, proofs and whatnot. Simple, no? Dirty snowball vs stony aquifer vs mostly metal ores, some do show signs of gases, including waters of various types. Never once have we seen any body smaller than a proto-planet demonstrate any electric activity for any measurable length of time which can not be explained by standard theory.
You might want to recheck your reasoning and sources, and you might want to check yourself for ticks, fleas and spiders as these can reliably be found inhabiting many places which are infrequently visited by folks or those inhabited by shiftless slackers. Elenin was using a robotic observatory near Mayhill, New Mexico. Universe Today.
It was magnitude 21 in August , the magnitude of 21 for August is calculated from knowing the orbit of Elenin. Only the most powerful telescopes could have seen it at mag By December when Elenin was discovered, it had brightened to magnitude 19, you still need quite powerful scopes to see it, but it was now within the upper range of high powered amateur instruments. Again, if anyone wishes to talk about Earthquakes and comets etc.
However, backup any extraordinary claims with peer-reviewed scientific papers on the subject. If these are not available or there is otherwise no basis for your claims, they will be considered pet theories or pseudo-junk and promptly removed. Unless of course if those claims agree with yours, then they need no peer reviewed papers, they can just be posted. Only topics with which you disagree need proof. Are NASA links peer reviewed enough for your standards? So Stardust taught us something new about the conditions in which the rocky materials of a comet were formed.
Nothing magical. Comets still have an abundance of ice. The rocky stuff is the dirt in the snowball. Your second link is to a webpage about spotting a comet. The comet itself is nearly invisible. This is a link to the Stardust mission. It discusses the possibility that comets were formed under extreme heat in regions close to the sun — instead of in the Kepler belt and beyond.
Other interesting trace elements were detected. It does not discuss composition ratios at all. For an article with more details on comet composition, see this like on a IR spectrograph analysis:.
Yeomans, Donald K. World Book Online Reference Center. World Book. Or for the NASA press release lovers out there out-gassing points to a complex arrangement of ices and gases :.
The comet experienced a flare up. This could be caused by several processes. The most obvious of these would be a variable out-gassing rate.
For an example of this refer to the observations of Wild 2 in your first link. Other processes could be adding to this, such as the comet out-gassing a more reflective element carbon for example. It always make more sense to work the most obvious causes first before assuming the unlikely or the unproven.
Around Nov 22 you can expect a much larger earthquake due to this comet. What is really baking my doodle in my noodle I call Minky boodle is this thing will really start to cause change around sept 11th.
The morning of Sept 11th I woke up from a nightmare of being in a plane that was headed to a city. I looked out my window and could see just how fast we were going. I knew in the dream I was dreaming because I thought 1st how did I get on this plane. The dream ended as we were taking a nose dive and going extremely fast. I woke right up stood up completely full of swet and said to myself something wrong. I said to myself, turn on the tv. I turned it on CNN had coverage of the 1st world trade center already on fire.
He placed the person on hold came into my room and we both witnessed the 2nd plane. I tell you this because last night I had a dream I was at a party and suddenly we starting hearing what we thought of as fire works all to go outside and started seeing these small rocks coming at us dropping from space, some burned up others took out houses all around us.
Those that ran into houses were killed all around me. I told a small group of my friends to stick with me because the best place to be is outside where you can see these things coming at you. We started just aimlessly walking, running dodging these things. As they started getting more severe my group broke up some went into 1 of the only houses left around us.
The grass was on fire, pavement was turning into lava it seamed, houses completely burned away. I knew I was doomed. I placed my hand out and touched it and I woke up in real life again. God Bless everyone, to all the victims and armys around the world united who have served faught and died for our peace in the world. I think I know what bakes your brain, noodles and boodles are not the ingested substance, but real cute images you have there, do the wall breathe for you as well?
The dream you relate here is a common one, after watching too many horror flics. The one where your dream starts to morph, change and become another flic, I think that one is a three-parter, has dwarfs and a very hostile environ only reachable from the interior doors of the embalming room.
There are lots of floating balls in that one, if you move they chase you. I say nothing more other than look at this document immediately. I took a brief look at the poorly formatted and edited, poorly researched and fact checked, non-paper at the location you indicated above.
Your attempt at spreading the word about the immanent destruction of our planet has succeeded in making you look like a fool, to my eyes at least. The effect of that mass on our stellar system would reveal both the mass and distance to that brown dwarf via simple Newtonian equations we have have for centuries. Many long term comets have been seen only once but we know they will return at a point in time in the future.
Scientists at that time will have the records we made in this era to identify and recognize those objects from our notes now. This is record keeping, not star science, in the support of discovery. There are many such sub-groupings of science in service to science. The tugs of planets on the star they orbit is one of the ways we know there are those planets. We see the tugs of massive objects best so there is more of that data at present.
I do not however find the facts to support this view. It looked like i asked 3 questions, but it was still one question, but i wanted to clarify, frome where the question came. The Sun and other stars are all moving in different directions relative to each other. Even if there were a small dwarf star one light year away — which would put it within the Oort cloud — a comet orbiting both stars would take tens of thousands of years to get from one to the other.
In the intervening time, both stars would have moved, so by the time the comet returns from its journey to the Sun, the dwarf star will be in a different place. Each pass around the Sun or the dwarf would either give it a gravity boost or slow it down, depending on its trajectory, and eventually it would either be ejected from the system or be captured by one of the stars in a smaller orbit. Taken in to account that we are now talking over a million years timespan.
This seems also logical, it reduces my question to something trivial. But thank you for stating it this way. It means for me, more studying to achieve a completer, correcter model.
Where i should take in the possibility, that a cycle stops or transforms into some other. Because all our given calculated constants are measured in our perception of time. Even Einsteins constant is time based. Does anyone know if there are some existing theories, i should look into which tackles the time question? Your request is not clearly stated, please restate your request in terms common to all of science.
If you are really asking — since we as humans experience time how can we measure some timeless quanta. The answer is clear, that quanta contains the measure of time as well as the measure of movement if mass is present. Can you show us the math please, as your statements do not indicate a grasp of the underlining facts which are determined by the observations and expressed as a theory, or as a hypothetical.
I sense there is some agenda hidden within your questions, please drag it into the open air, give it full light for examination. Allow de-bunkers to thrash it, find reasons to dismiss it, for therein is the scientific method in truth.
It [the tested item] might survive and take the place of some existing pillar, but the process is the key. If you do not jump on the merry-go-round then you can never try for the brass ring. Education is what allows us to determine which ride at the fair is the proper one for our present state of attainment. You are deleting stuff with an eye of a typical narrow minded modern scientist. Which is fine by me. Not by stating all, that was stated before. Read the secret doctrine written by Batavsky, it can be an eye opener, if you make it to the end of the book.
Written at the end of the 19th century. Your post was never deleted, please have patience. The mods may well be requiring all posts to be marked as acceptable before they will be posted to the comments section for all you know. I answered your first ill formed and badly thought out question posting and this irate post of yours as you seemed to be only slightly under-educated for a middle school graduate but still interested in learning at the undergraduate level.
I see now you are not of that ilk but instead are one of the nutters we get from time to time. Begone please, until you can learn patience and logic. Many have come to the fountain of knowledge, though few brought cups from which to sip, many from cupped hand drink, to quench the thirst. Do you know what washing your hands in the fount of knowledge is like to those coming after you, do you know where those hands have been, rhetorical questions, all of course, for to sip its sweetness is why you came.
Drink Deep. You are the first person which has answered that question, logically. From their the inpatience. Why, should it be interesting to read the secret doctrine? I came to this book, by someone who was stating that Einstein had read it to. On page there is clearly stated that all is mass and all is light.
That we are using statistics for proving something is a lack of knowledge. Imagine that an engineer makes a car or a software program, which is proven to work 6 days out of 7. Last of all, you to, can go nuts, looking at your reply. My question was ment to be asked at an undergraduate level, why? And thank you for answering logically! Imagine that an engineer makes a car or a software program, which is proven to work 6 days out of 7 [sic,.
My reply: Jef, one of many concerns I have with the current educational system is the capability the system has to produce degree impaired graduates. You are not the only example though so do not take too much away with you. The idea that all knowledge is just opinion and all opinions are equal in import, capable of fitting the real word truly, and of equal weight is a false view. Frankly, you are not educated, trained, informed, inherently bright enough to carry an opinion, much less express it publicly in the fashions you have demonstrated.
Please look into the quality of education possessed by 5th graders at the turn of the last century. Compare that to what you know of your own. Statistics is a common subject for any engineer; mechanical, electric, quantum, chemical, and etc. The fact you make plain above is that you have no background in the sciences despite your claims. Is english your native tongue or are you not inclined to reading what you write or say and taking some time in editing it before you post it?
I do not blame you but I do blame the institutions claiming to have educated you at ANY level, th grades, th grades, grades, working toward an undergraduate degree. Tutors, teachers and parents all, and all of those humans with input into you are to blame; all have failed to instill in you a love of knowledge for its own sake, so to fill the need you latch on to what makes sense to your underdeveloped brain, the results are what we see here.
Please self educate, it is never too late. Look up postmodern philosophy of education such as the article below. The article was chosen at random, btw, from the search results. Then look up the philosophy of education which came before what is current.
See how each differs from the other. Some of these exercises are left to you, complete them as you may for it is your time to benefit. Spam, advertising, multiple postings, links to products or off-topic material, run-on paragraphs, typing in capital letters or other obnoxiousness.
They must depend upon others and with the propensity of people to distust governments they can and do fall prey to people who do not tell the whole truth Intentionally or not. When I first heard about Elenin it was from a dear friend who fits the situation in number 1 above. Since I know him to be a very good man who would probably be willing to listen to what I might turn up I immediately started to search the intenet for information about brown dwarfs. Finding that the smallest would have to be only a little more massive than Jupiter I searched for the diatance that it was at that time from us.
As it was less than the distance of Jupiter from our planet or 4 to 6 AU. After all it should be at least as bright with reflected sunlight as Jupiter is. Of course he could not. I recommended him to the Sydney Star Gazers site and soon he was telling me as well as others what they were observiing. He still is suspicious of governments, especially ours here in the USA, But he now knows a little more about how to dig out the truth himself.
Will he do it next time? Probably not but with patience I expect that if not next time then perhaps the time after that or … And he is still my friend. Really what we need to do is to help others is to respect them and help them to learn how to solve this type of problem. It requires a willing mind and a few research skills. I hope that as amateur astronomers and professionals that we can start to do this. People are not stupid. They need a little knowledge the help them to overcome their ignorance and the resulting fear.
If enough of us were to start using quiet voices perhaps we couod turn this abuse of people who really want to know into more people who can and will TTPT, think the problem through. Charley C. Langley Jr. Vernal, Utah, USA.
In many cases I agree with what you state here. In some cases it is evident there is a deficit which would preclude the furtherance of enlightenment. Disqus generic email templateMy answer was of course simplistic and was meant to stimulate thought and encouragement on the part of those of us who could help resolve the probem. People have a range of opportunities for education, to learn critical thinking, capabilities and motivations gain and use learned skills.
How do you provide a wake up call? I would really like to know. The text books that I have examined from grade school through the college level are generally well written and most of the teachers that I have associated with are serious and good in their teaching methodologys.
I taught as an adjunct professor in the physical sciences for a few years after my retirement. I liked my students. All of these courses taught critcal thinking skills. The students showed little desire to gain them. The mental effort seemed too much. It was easier slip by anyway that they could. Without these skills partial information can be turned into a lie. Otherwise good people can be mislead and the results can lead them to disaster.
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